It’s a Friday afternoon in the upstairs snug of Dublin’s Palace Bar, and the words Guinness and Diageo do not cross Willie Aherne’s lips.
“We’ll call it Big Stout for now,” says the well-known publican.
Sitting in one of the country’s oldest and most venerated public houses, Aherne is musing about the modern Irish pub scene.
“Stout is having its real moment in the sun,” he says. “The explosion and the popularity of stout with young people, with a female audience, with young lads ... I remember looking at the Palace one evening and going: ‘My God, everyone’s just drinking it here’.”
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The Palace Bar on Fleet Street is one of a handful of city centre hostelries that can legitimately lay claim to the likes of Patrick Kavanagh and Brendan Behan as former patrons. A Victorian heritage establishment that finds itself on the edge of the ultra-commercial Temple Bar area, an “old-man’s pub” frequently jammed with young pint drinkers, it has played host to literary giants, politicians, playwrights, newspaper men, poets, musicians and all the rest.
The interior speaks to its history – and it is easy to imagine that much of the decor has remained unchanged since the days when Behan held court.
“It’s documented that if you were a stranger, it was like coming into an alligator’s pit. All these minds, they all wanted to have a snap at you,” says Aherne.
“Ireland of the ’30s and ’40s was a very censored country, very backward in its thinking. And they say what took place downstairs in the Palace back room – the men who drank there – shaped Irish journalism, Irish writing, Irish poetry, and even Irish politics.”
Aherne is the third generation of his family to run the bar – since it was purchased by his grandfather Bill Aherne in 1946.
“Like his brothers – from Tipperary – they all came up and served their time in the trade,” he says. “He would have worked for his uncle Jack on Capel Street – he had a bar where the AIB is.
“He would have saved enough and probably worked every God-given hour and had a good relationship with the bank manager. That doesn’t seem to be around nowadays; it’s a different ball game now”.
Aherne has to balance the Palace’s legacy with its place in a new drinking culture.
He recognises the importance of keeping the history and the essence of the pub alive but like any other business it has to pay heed to new trends.
Fourteen months ago, Aherne and 13 other pub owners established the Changing Times brewery.
The brainchild of Aherne and David Chawke – son of veteran Dublin publican Charlie Chawke – they billed it as offering local alternatives to those from the massive drinks manufacturers dominating the Irish market.
I think it’s just getting a bit much. I didn’t see any justification for going at it again. Big Stout’s shareholders in London are calling the shots there, you know
— Willie Aherne
Walk into the likes of the Palace, the Bank on College Green or the Swan Bar on Aungier Street and the Changing Times branding is on full view. Currently brewing four products – a mix of lager, pale ales and stout – Aherne is hoping to grow the offering over the next 12 months.
“We weren’t far off break even – which was great for our first year in business,” he says. “We did some things right, we did some things wrong. We learned a lot.
“There is a big 12 months ahead of us. We really have to put the shoulder to the wheel.”
The rationale for setting up the new venture was two-fold, according to Aherne. There was clearly an appetite for the kind of products they were looking at developing and a desire by publicans to become less dependent on the big manufacturers.
Aherne and others have been public in their opposition to price hikes from Diageo and Heineken over the past three years, with both increasing their prices this month.
[ Price of a pint of Guinness and 0.0 alternative set to climb by about 20 centOpens in new window ]
“It was a combination of wanting something different on our counter [and] we wanted to be masters of our own destiny,” he says.
“The big multinational breweries were really dictating things on our counters. We wanted to give customers a bit of a better choice, but as well as that we had to start thinking a little bit differently – not being at the mercy of [the big breweries].”
He says Changing Times’ prices have not budged in the past year and no increases are planned for 2026. He suggests that this could soon make them 50 to 60 cent cheaper than their multinational counterparts.
“I think it’s just getting a bit much,” he says of the most recent price hike from Diageo. “I didn’t see any justification for going at it again. Big Stout’s shareholders in London are calling the shots there, you know.”
Aherne says the Changing Times team tapped into existing relationships in the early days, such as that with the Cork brewer Shane Long, founder of the Franciscan Well brewery.
“We’d meet Shane when he’d come up to Dublin and we would support him. He used to come up and deliver the beer and sleep in his van and we took his range of bottles at the time.
“So we kind of had a relationship with Shane and we’d meet him every few months and have a pint. And it was over a pint we said we should give this a go ourselves.”
He says it was Long’s suggestion that he bring in a number of pubs – to make sure the drinks had a clear route to market.
“And we kind of said: ‘Right – we need a few others to bring on board. It’s not an easy project’.”
The company lists 12 families among its shareholders.
Aherne reels them off – mentioning the Mangan brothers, who own Doheny and Nesbitts on Baggot Street, Alan Campbell of The Bankers Bar on Trinity Street, and Noel Anderson of Grand Slam Bars.
Along with city centre pubs such as The Long Hall and Sheehan’s, Aherne says there is a solid platform for the drinks.
“If we were to broadcast it and ask everyone [to come on board] it would never have got off the ground,” he says. “There had to be no messing with it – it had to be: ‘This is how we’re doing it.’ If we brought too many chiefs on board it wouldn’t have got going.”
By the sounds of it, Aherne is enjoying the experience.
The majority of pubs carrying the beers are in Dublin, with a couple of exceptions. Aherne says the initial plan was to keep it in the capital in order to control costs but Changing Times products can now also be found in Sligo and Limerick.
At the end of the day we are their customers as well, you know, so they want to work with us. I think that’s maybe the attitude they’ve taken
— Willie Aherne
“It’s just that you run into more expenses when you go outside Dublin – delivery and cleaning costs, and stuff like that. But we were approached by Tom Connolly’s [in Sligo] – and how could you say no to Tom Connolly’s?
“Also with the Flannery’s in Limerick – there’s a few brothers who are actually relatives of mine. They’ve four or five pubs in Limerick city and they came to us – the things they’ve done down there are just phenomenal.”
He says the Changing Times team have planned trips to both locations in the next few weeks.
It was perhaps just a matter of time before those in the pub trade tapped into the microbrewery market. There has been an explosion of small Irish operations over the past 10 years – wrestling for space and prominence behind bar counters.
The large established breweries have responded by expanding their range of products – in an attempt to retain customers, who have now developed a taste for the modern IPA.
So what does Big Stout up the road at St James’s Gate make of the development?
“They’re kind of cute enough,” says Aherne. “I think they were watching, kind of scratching their head a little bit. This was a new one for them. We weren’t a little upstart brewery.
“At the end of the day we are their customers as well, you know, so they want to work with us. I think that’s maybe the attitude they’ve taken.”
So there are no open hostilities?
“Ah, no, no. Maybe they thought as well – what’s the word I’m looking for – that we’d end up f**king killing each other in the end.
“We’re all getting on though. It’s a very good working relationship. Maybe they [Diageo] were hoping for a fall-out.”
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Demand for the four beers rises and falls, he says, with the seasons. More requests for the venture’s After Hours Hazy Pale Ale in the summer, more sales of its Clockwork Velvet Stout in the winter months.
Lacking the marketing clout of the multinationals, Aherne says “guerrilla” branding opportunities are on the agenda for 2026 but he concedes that it will be difficult breaking the loyalty of drinkers to established brands.
“There’s certain times of the year where it can dip a little bit – you know, Christmas time – you get a lot of suburban people coming into the city and they’re very much brand brainwashed. It’s the likes of Coors and Moretti, which they’d ask for.”
While busying himself with a potential expansion of the Changing Times brand, Aherne is also working on a new project around the corner from the Palace.
He is renovating a property on Aston Quay with the intention of turning it into a new bar with a classic pub-shop aesthetic. With plans to name it after his Tipperary grandfather who first ran the Palace – Bill Aherne – he has been scouring the country for vintage pub furniture and fittings.
“We’re trying to really give it a bit of soul, a real lovely old feel. Old mirrors, old taps, lovely floor. We’ve had an artist from west Kerry do something on the ceiling for us.
“It’s a blank canvas, a great opportunity. And the beauty of it? It’s 10 seconds around the corner.”
The new establishment will serve as another platform for Changing Times, he says.
The Irish pub – in particular the rural pub – has been in documented decline for the past decade.
Pub numbers have fallen significantly – and Covid permanently closed the doors on many a struggling business.
While Aherne, like many industry figures, notes the impact from the increase in the minimum wage and pension auto-enrolment, he is loath to harp on about price increases from the breweries. He says he would rather talk about what is in his control.
The Palace is “blessed”, says Aherne, by dint of its location on the edge of Temple Bar – and a strong mixture of different types of clientele.
Visitors from the United States helped swell the coffers last year and there is no shortage of passing trade. But he does worry about the rising cost of living in general and whether that will soon bite harder on trade.
From an industry perspective, what does he think the Government could be doing to enhance its prospects?
He notes French efforts to have Parisian cafes listed as Unesco heritage sites – a move that was recently endorsed by president Emmanuel Macron.
“I’d love to see the Irish pub recognised,” he says. “The heritage thing – there’s an argument to be made there.
“They say it in the Lonely Planet about the visitors who come to Ireland – what is their main reason? It’s the Irish pub and the experience of Irish music.
“I don’t think it’s something we can just take for granted. I think we have to mind that.”
Meanwhile, price hikes aside, the relationship between the Changing Times publicans and the likes of Diageo remains amicable enough, says Aherne. So does he still take the occasional pint of the black stuff?
“Ah, I’d like a pint of ‘Big Stout’ every now and again,” he says. “But you have to support the small man, you know.”
CV
Name: Willie Aherne
Age: 49
Position: Third-generation family owner of the Palace Bar in Dublin and co-owner of the Changing Times brewery.
Family: Married to a Kildare woman; they have three children.
Something you might expect: loves the feel of traditional family pubs around the country.
Something that might surprise: Owns one-tenth of a greyhound with nine Kerry men, called Solo and Go.
